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Lower the bike or raise the boot sole height? (Adobe Acrobat PDF file)
Progressive
Suspension Adjustment
Tech Racing Skull
Enterprises
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Articles on lowering a bike: 2008 Tuesday, March 4 Hey VTwin Mama, My dealership told me that they were using the "Pro Tek" lowering link and it has 3 stages. They couldn't max it out because of the fear of damaging the shock. Do you think it's the truth? If it is, why would they make 3 stages in the first place? I am confused and afraid to ride this bike because of not being able to have both feet on the ground comfortable, especially on the hills or if I had to back up. I don't want to trim my seat either. Are there any solutions to this? I really love this bike ; ( Thanks. Vinnie Dear Vinnie, In looking for other lowering links specific to your make/model, I was unable to find anything ... this is not uncommon for sport bikes ... just now more solutions are being offered, but it's hit and miss. Since you don't want to modify the seat, then I would take another look at your boots. If you love your boots, you might want to try an internal lift insert inside the boot. If it's a well-made boot, meaning that the bottom was sewn (not glued) to the upper leather, than head to a shoe repair shop and they should be able to noodle out an extra added sole to the boots. Or, shop for new boots with a higher profile sole, remembering you might have to readjust your feel at the shift/brake controls. I would think the dealership would have mentioned the possibility of a shorter shock and any availability, but you might want to revisit that question. If not, there are companies that offer custom shock shortening, but again, you've got the internal framework to consider, and it simply may be as low as possible for correct operation. A lower profile tire might help, but I'd really keep this as my last option and then proceed with extreme caution. Mama Thursday, March 6 Dear VTwin Mama, However, it was modified a long time ago and had the front forks replaced with longer forks to give it sort of a chopper look. I love the look of the bike and think it looks way better than stock. The problem for me is that since the forks were replaced, it happened to raise the bike substantially and I can barely tip-toe on the bike when at a stop. I would love to be able to lower the bike an inch or two to aid when coming to a stop but I am having trouble finding any way to lower my ride without putting stock forks back on the bike which could be costly and take away from the look. I have already raised the front forks as far up the triple tree as they can go too. I think the best bet is to lower the rear but cannot find any lowering kits for my model. I have also tried to find some sort of universal rear shocks that are shorter than stock but again cannot find any that are compatible with my bike (the rear shocks are an "eye to clevis" design). The only shocks I've found that will fit are 14" in length which will actually raise the bike even more as the current shocks are 13" in length, I would like to find shocks that are 11-12" in length but am starting to think they don't exist. I came across your website the other day and thought it may be a great resource for me, being a short male, and found some very good information for shorter riders. If you know of any resources for replacement shocks that will fit my bike/design or could maybe point me in the right direction I would be very grateful! Thanks, Mike Dear Mike, Just for curiosity, I checked OldBikeBarn for availability of parts ... this may be a useful resource to you in the future! Use the Advanced Search feature on their home page to get an idea. Of course, many people find what they need in stock items on eBay, so keep that in mind as well. So, then I did a search using the term "eye to clevis shocks" and found evidence of 12.5" shocks here and here. 1/2" isn't much, but combined with thicker soled boots, you might have a better leg to ground reach. My other thought is to contact Skull Enterprises in Colorado, as they specialize in shortening existing shocks or building custom ones ... call them up and see if they can assist! As predicated, there were no lowering kits available ... not surprised given the age of the motorcycle. I would contact an independent bike shop in your area ... they may be able to machine a lowering link (which is just a flat piece of metal with a hole on each end). That fits between the top anchor point of the shock and the top of the shock, thus bringing the rear end down. You'll want to be careful about how much though ... the ability of the shock to do its job can be over compromised if you're trying to go too low. One other idea, although it would alter the look, and maybe not to your satisfaction, is to open up the seat covering and shave some of the interior material out and then recover. In looking at the stock seat, if you did this uniformly across the seat if would be hardly noticeable that you made the alteration. If it's of interest, but something you don't want to tackle yourself, an area upholstery company should be able to do it. I hope these ideas give you new directions in researching your needs! Mama Thursday, March 13 Dear VTwin Mama, I have a 2005 HD Road King Custom Touring Bike. I can ride this bike fine but it feels top heavy for me when I come to a stop or am maneuvering in 1st gear or neutral. I have tipped it over a few times! I have talked to the HD folks who tell me the Custom cannot be lowered anymore than it is. I know that I can go to a custom shop and get it lowered front and back but I cannot get an answer about how this will affect the dynamics of the air suspension ride and if this is what I really need to do or if I just need a different bike. I would hate to mess up a really good bike. I am 5'6, 150 lbs. Can you help me? Thanks! T. Dear T., So, let's look at the seat. I read an online review by a rider who said to lose the stock seat and go to Corbin. You might also want to look at what LePera has for HDs. Or, you can open up the seat, shave some of the padding out (especially the sides if it's forcing your thighs out) and recover! Maybe you want to check into that before altering the ride dynamics. At the same time you're doing something to lower yourself in the saddle, take another look at your riding boots. Get something with more sole or I've heard that even a 1/2" lift insert inside the boot can make a difference. Together with a slimmer, lower profile seat, you may find the answer without changing the trickier ride characteristics. P.S. If you're leaning forward to that handlebar, I'm pretty sure there is a pullback riser available ... getting that handlebar closer to you can shift your position in the seat and also make a difference! Mama Monday, March 24 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Anon, Looking at a 1500 Classic entry on my Motorcycle for Short Riders list, which has a 27.6" seat height, I see Progressive shocks lowered the bike by 3", they had to lower the front as well, which turned out to be 2.5" and the 5'0" rider changed out seats to come down another inch and added pullback risers to bring the handlebar into better position. A 5'5" rider on the same bike noted that no modifications were necessary. Typically however, if you're purchasing new, it's time to talk to a salesperson and make the lowering of the bike part of the overall purchase price because it looks like you're in for a multi-step process to get the fit right. But, armed with this information, and a review of the links I shared with you, you'll be able to talk about modifications with much more confidence! If you've already bought the bike, then check your stock shock length, order a shorter one online or through the dealer and check into lowering the front fork. Shave out some of the stock seat or get a new one and don't forget that boots with more sole can make up the difference! Mama Hi VTwin Mama, I am frustrated because the dealership told me that they absolutely could lower the bike, but there are no front lowering kits for the 2008 SuperGlide Custom. They have said they are going to use a company called Race Tech Suspension to get it lowered, Race Tech is going to "create" a front end lowering kit for my model bike. This worries me for some reason because I have already lowered the back with Progressive Shocks (lowered by 1 3/4"), am having their custom seat company cut down my seat by almost two inches and now, after those mods didn't have me flat footed, they are going to lower the front. The sales person assures me this will get me flat to the ground, but this has been over a month now and it's just such a long drawn out process. Do you have any insights for me? I guess I'm just frustrated that it's taking as long as it has and that they don't have a lowering kit for the front end. Are they all the same? Thanks! I love your website!!! Anonymous Dear Anon, Front forks most commonly consist of "male" tubes secured at the top and "female" sliders that move up and down to absorb road bumps and are secured to the wheel. Looking at a picture of your bike (just beautiful, by the way!), that is in fact the system your bike has, which I confirmed by calling my local HD dealership. Inside the system are springs, damper rods, spacers, and oil. When one talks about lowering the front end, one is typically discussing replacing the stock springs with something either shorter or less stiff or both. I'll note that on the HD site, it says you have 49mm front forks for "increased front end stiffness for improved handling and a more substantial look." So, I talked with the service department and asked the question. He said there is a tube replacement kit from HD ... this is a shorter "male" tube section by 3/4". Don't let that fool you; while it doesn't sound like much, it'll change the overall angle of the front end and drop it down nicely. Now, it's possible your dealer knows about this kit but determined it wouldn't be enough in your case. That could be why they are talking with a company for a custom kit. I would call your dealer back, now knowing a bit more about things, and ask about the tube replacement kit (just tell them how you came by the info!) and learn exactly what they are expecting Race Tech Suspension to do. That should bring you up to speed and give you more confidence on the whole experience you're going through. By the way, should the final lowering and modifications still leave you not perfectly flat foot, the final adjustment can be made with your riding boots. If you've got a good pair, where the upper leather is stitched (not glued) to the bottom, then any competent shoe repair store can add a bit of sole to your current boots, or you can look for something new with a thicker/higher sole! Mama Tuesday, April 22 For Anon whose HD Superglide is still being lowered in the front for proper fit: I, too, have a Superglide but a Sport, and have also lowered mine from a seat height of 27 to 26. Just a thought for you to keep in mind as my dealership-friends told me when I inquired about getting flat-footed. While flat-footed is ok, having the balls of your feet on the ground is usually enough. My buddies asked me: Do you ride with your feet on the ground? They were right . . . I have had my bike at nearly flat-footed for three years now, and it is just fine! 90% of all riding time, your feet are on the pegs, not on the ground! :o) Carrie (note from Mama: how very right you are ... I tend to follow the flat foot to ground advice for newer riders as the majority seem to benefit from the extra security of having a firm purchase to the ground. However, as you noted, one can make do with just the balls of one's feet on the ground, although I wouldn't advocate a true tippy-toe unless you've got some riding time in!) I am 4'10" and am riding a Heritage Softail. We had the back lowered with Progressive shocks, pull back risers, and a narrower seat installed. I still was not comfortable on the bike. Then we found a shoe shop who modifies shoes for people who have one leg longer than the other. He removed the sole of my Harley boots, built them up one whole inch with crepe, then put the soles back on. The results were amazing, and made all the difference. I now have total control of my bike, and I love my boots. They are very comfortable, even softer with the added crepe. If you cannot find a shop near you, I am sure the one I used would accommodate you. I can send you their address and phone number. Several people, men and women, in our HOG chapter have had their boots done. This worked for me. I totally recommend it. linwebs (note from Mama: love the photos ... thanks for sharing them! Click on the pictures for a bigger view!)
Wednesday, May 21 Dear Readers, Monday, June 2 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear
JwsKas971, Most likely, and you can take a look for yourself, is that a lowering link was placed between the frame of the bike and the top of the rear shock. Unbolt both ends and rebolt the top of the shock to the frame. Also be aware that some shocks can be adjusted in terms of the preload ... the adjuster, or collar, is turned to set this. If the shock feels like it's sagging or bottoming out when you hit a bump, you'll need to make a change so the back end has a bit stiffer action. It's also possible that a shorter shock was installed, although given the age of the bike, I think this is less likely the case. Here you would either need the service manual or make a call to the local dealer's parts department to determine the stock shock length and compare it to the part number on the current shock. In some cases the front fork would have been adjusted as well. That's means shorter fork tubes were put in or a shorter or less stiff inner spring was installed. I'm guessing you'll know when you undo the back end modification ... you'll feel like the bike is now high in back and low up front instead of even across. Mama Thursday, June 5 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Lynn, So, you've already looked at your boots. Now I'm looking at a picture of your bike with it's 27.8" seat height. In one review it was noted that the shocks were not adjustable. If the dealer can't offer you a shorter shock, I'd take a close-up picture of it and email Skull Enterprises in CO as they specialize in shortening shocks. While the Vento is a US-based company, the bike is manufactured in China and to some degree assembled here in the States. Thus I was not surprised that I couldn't find shops that offered aftermarket items, including things like a lowering kit. Is there a generic lowering link you could use? Possibly, but I'd double check if that would void the warranty. I'd probably go for a seat modification first. Take the seat off, remove the staples, shave what you need out, and recover. A local upholstery shop could do the work. If you think you'll lose to much tushie comfort, shave even more out than you need and insert a gel pad. Mama Tuesday, July 8 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Barbara, As you're not a fan of the looks for the Reach Seat by H-D, I'd turn my attention to LePera, as they specialize in custom aftermarket seats for H-D motorcycles. Click on Bikes, Softail, and you'll find those solo seats. The Barebones model is a very low seat profile, but you may be sacrificing some butt comfort. There are many more aftermarket seat companies, but in a quick check I saw that most aren't offering '08 models yet (not unusual, it takes a bit to come up to speed with the newest models). Another way to look at this, if you like the stock seat you would get, is to have a custom seat company or upholstery shop shave a bunch of the padding out of the sides (to reduce the amount your thighs would be pushed out) and bottom (to get you lower), but also put a gel insert in at the bottom for comfort. Coupled with a pair of riding boots with a more aggressive (thicker) sole height might be all you need. Mama Dear VTwin Mama, I have a 2002 Harley FXD which has a seat height of 27 3/4". I am 5'4" and am flat footed; however, I have dropped it twice getting it out of the garage and feel that if I had an additional inch or so of leg I could maneuver better. On the road and "controlled surfaces" I am fine but I am tired of asking my husband to get my bike out for me. Help! Cody7626 Dear Cody7626, So, one can try for a shorter shock (like these from Scootworks), or just a lowering kit, or a combination. In looking at the stock seat, I don't see a lot of seat padding to either side (which pushes thighs out before legs can go to the ground) and the bottom doesn't look like it could be shaved out much. However, your bike may no longer have a stock seat, so consider that option. One can remove the seat, take off the leather cover, shave padding out, and recover. Or go to a custom seat company or local upholstery shop. And then one can take a closer look at riding boots. If you're wearing boots with very thin sole height, a shopping trip is in order ... lots of nice H-D style boots are available if one wants to stick to the brand name. Mama Dear VTwin Mama, Another problem I'm learning to ride at 58. When I sit on the bike my heel is about an inch from the ground. I have a reach seat, the bike only has 3.9 inch clearance so I don't know if it can be lowered anymore. I'm getting discouraged about my ability to ride it and have thought about selling it and getting a Honda Shadow VT750C2 because I seemed to reach better when I sat on one. Any suggestions? Thanks ... I know your site is mainly for women but some guys write as we have the same problems. Manny R. Dear Manny, Any time a newer rider is approaching a stop or is stopped and they don't have their foot/feet flat on the ground, it can set up a problem in that you've now added another component that must be factored in. In this case, you will always be balancing you and the bike by the balls of your feet and if you need full foot contact, the bike must be at a small angle. Add in a road/driveway that itself isn't perfectly level and the lean is more pronounced. In all of this, the rider is then focused on the ground and foot placement. The drops more readily happen because we go where we look. The front brake is in fact properly used when approaching a stop in a straight line; but if you look down to plant your foot, a drop can happen. Your goal is to know that you can plant your foot and keep your head and eyes looking forward and level to the ground. In looking at the Fit Chart and Motorcycles For Short Riders entry for the 883 Low, I see that beyond the seat change, there are other modifications you may consider. The first is your boots if you are not already wearing something with a higher heel/sole. There is reference to a pair of men's elevator boots and I'll add that you may want to try an internal lift inside the boot first (depending on how much your heel is off the ground). You'll also see that shorter shocks are possible (which will lower the back just that extra bit ... and for some, the addition of a pullback riser, which brings the handlebar closer to the rider, allowed for a better seat position and thus legs had more reach as you've removed any forward body lean. I'm advocating that you look into these possibilities before considering getting another motorcycle ... the only reason being that the resale value won't be as high as the original purchase price and it would be a shame to lose $$ before fully exploring more options. Wide turns, especially those from a stop, are only resolved through practice. Head to an empty parking lot with some sort of markers (tennis balls cut in half, bright plastic drink cups, etc.) and lay out an intersection. Key points to remember: lifting both feet evenly from the ground to the pegs helps a lot because your center of gravity is maintained over the COG of the bike and you're less likely to set up a wobble in the handlebar (which is tough to then overcome because you're trying to focus on the turn); use the friction zone of the clutch to regulate your speed; look with both your head and eyes on the point where you wish to finish. I hope these pointers will help you noodle out the solution for the best fit possible! Mama Thursday, July 31 For Manny who is wondering about lowering his H-D 883 Low for better fit at 5'2": First let me say how much I appreciate your site. I have found solace and encouragement here more than once! [thanks!] Manny, I have a 2003 Sportster XLH 883 Hugger. At 5'3", I was having trouble touching the ground, too. I just traded out the stock "pillow" seat for a Brawler solo seat -- MAJOR CHANGE! I don't know if I would ride the Brawler seat on a super long ride, but it ain't bad. I know this: I now have control of the bike. I sit more "in" the bike than "on" it, now. Seats are expensive, but it made a huge difference for me. Ride safe. Anon (note from Mama: so despite a change to a H-D Reach seat, there are ultimately other seat options to consider ... not cheap doing so, but less expensive than a new bike!) I also recently passed my MSF test
(had never been on a bike in my life) and went out to buy a bike that fit me
(58). Friday, August 1 From Manny who is wondering about lowering his H-D 883 Low for better fit at 5'2": I spoke with a Harley dealer about Progressive shocks for a 2007 883L and he said they should lower the bike a bit because they are not as stiff, so my personal 140 lbs will have more effect. With the stock shocks the bike is very stiff and bounces when I hit bumps on the road. I'm also not able to flat foot so I figure this will help. When I called the Progressive tech rep he said the shocks will provide a more comfortable ride but will not lower the bike. I see a lot of people lowering their bikes, even 883L and they only have 3.9 in clearance, mine bottoms out pulling out of the driveway so I wonder how they are dealing with the lower suspension. Manny (note from Mama: ok 883L riders, I need your input on this one!) Friday, August 1 From Cody7626 who got a 2002 H-D but it was sitting high: Hi Mama! I just wanted to give you an update to my original post. Since I have such limited riding experience (less than 50 hours road time), I have opted to sell the Harley for now. I have just purchased a used Honda VLX600 and what confidence it has already given me. We brought it home last week Thursday night, Friday I backed it out of the shop by myself and moved it so I could wash and polish it and I rode it both Saturday and Sunday totally by myself. My husband did not even ride with me. I am thinking that I will be back on a Harley eventually, but felt this was the smart way to start and get my motorcycle legs. I know, however, the things that I will insist on when I do make an upgrade. Thank you for all of your information. What a wonderful site! I will continue to visit. Cody7626 (note from Mama: I know it seems difficult to many that a first choice doesn't always end up being the right choice ... and there's no magic formula or crystal ball ... riders learn what works from them by doing parking lot practice and road time ... there is no substitute. Kudos to you Cody7626 for taking a new approach to your adventure in riding!) Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Manny, Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Short Legged, Tuesday, August 19 For Short Legged who is wondering if another seat will lower the 1200L even more than the Sundowner: I am 5'3" and ride a 1200 Low. I read many forums recommending the Corbin Close Solo and so ordered one installed on my new bike. I was surprised, however, to discover it actually felt a little higher than the stock seat. I tried to contact Corbin twice via email to see if their experiences with this bike were different but they never responded. It may be that the Low's stock seat is already "low profile" so aftermarket "low profile" seats do not help much. I am not unhappy with the seat as it is comfortable and offers great support. Sorry I can't offer a seat recommendation. I am consider installing the 11" Progressive shocks. I've read they would offer a superior ride and would lower the bike by 3/4 inches as the stock shocks are 11.75". PatyJ. (note from Mama: recently I received direct contact from H-D and have now asked H-D if there is someone I can email these types of questions to as information tends to be sketchy and everyone is looking for the same specification call outs!) Friday, August 22 More for Short Legged, wondering if another seat will lower the 1200L even more than the Sundowner: From Harley-Davidson: "The best option for a rider with a short inseam is the Reach seat
(two-up or solo seat) because it takes the rider closer to the controls,
and it offers a very narrow nose to keep the legs closer together at a
stop. They are listed on p. 72 of the 09 P&A catalog. [This
is new for 09 and its not on the Web site yet, so we cant include a
link.] Monday, August 25 More for Short Legged, wondering if another seat will lower the 1200L even more than the Sundowner: I am 5 feet tall MAYBE 5' 1". I ride a 2007 1200L Sportster. I have the Reach Seat. It helped. Then I put on Progressive shocks and they helped again. I have the Sportster mini apes and pull back risers. All of this has helped me to be flat footed in "normal" Harley Boots. The shocks and seat combo are a great duo! Tink (note from Mama: thanks for sharing the steps you took for good fit!) Monday, November 10 For Manny who was wondering about shorter shocks for the H-D 883L: I am a 5'0" woman who had the 10" shocks put on my 2006 883L. I will say that it lowered the bike enough for even my short legs to reach flat footed (in addition to a LePera seat), but I am now in the process of either modifying my bike again or possibly buying another bike. The 883L has a clearance of 3.9" without any modifications, and once I lowered it I found that I could not make tight left hand turns (out of driveways, stop signs, traffic lights, etc) because the kickstand drags on the ground, and to a lesser extent on right turns the frame scrapes. Also by lowering the bike further I found the comfort of the ride to be greatly compromised ... as I've described it every pot hole feels like the Grand Canyon! Just my opinion, but after many 300+ mile days, I would try everything else before using shorter shocks! Hope this helps someone! Rebecca (note from Mama: great notes on the reality of lowering this model!)
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