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Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Kimberly, Perhaps the stunned look on the salesman's face was due to your captivating combination of beauty, brains and chutzpah, or perhaps you inadvertently missed a step in the price haggle dance. Or, being a part of the five percent minority of rider-types (the women of course), he had never come across an actual live specimen of "woman-able-to-think-for-herself-when-it-comes-to-her-riding-needs! Of course, if the bike in question takes 6 months to 2 years to get delivery of, I doubt price is a question -- it's more of when will you actually ever see your bike! This was a biggee in the '90s with Harleys. Let's see what other VTwin Mama sisters might have to add to this, but if all fails, go to a bike shop away from home where you don't want any of their models, find a talkative salesman, and then ask! Also, consider joining the local chapter of one of the credible national women riding organizations and get local support. Check the VTwin Mama Link Section for more stuff. Mama Wednesday, March 13 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Shadowlady, Thank you for your input. Another resource is an article written on the About.com website, specifically talking about the art of buying a motorcycle. This may prove to be useful and was submitted by veteran VTwin Mama sister researcher April. The main address for Part I is: http://motorcycles.about.com/library/weekly/aa111201a.htm and Part II (which talks about buying from a dealer) is here: http://motorcycles.about.com/library/weekly/aa111201b.htm. Mama Friday, March 15 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Nancy, Friday, March 15 Dear VTwin Mama, Negotiating is tough and can be limited by two key issues, dealerships and timing/availability. The salesMAN in the first dealership was rude to me and quoted the MSRP plus delivery and set up fees. I told him I was prepared to purchase the bike immediately and could he do any better that that. The answer was no but he offered to match any better deal I got elsewhere. The three salesMEN in the second dealership ignored their only customer, me, and I walked out after spending 20 minutes looking at bikes and accessories. The third dealership greeted me immediately and took me seriously. I felt very comfortable at this shop, it seemed to have a strong business, and both customers and staff were friendly. I decided to buy the bike there but negotiations were limited because this was the only dealership I would consider working with at the end of the day. And this brings me to the second point, timing. I didn't have a lot of leverage because I was buying a 2002 bike in Sep01 and they only had one on the floor that early in the season. I couldn't get anything off the price of the bike but did get them to waive delivery and set up fees of $350. I also got 40% off any accessories I purchased that day and 20% off parts and accessories for the next 12 months. If I had waited until winter I probably would have gotten a better deal but the fall was spectacular for riding and I didn't put the bike away until 2nd week in December. Not bad for north of Boston! I should also mention that I sold my first bike, an '85 Honda Rebel 250, this past Sunday. After a test drive and some dickering, we agreed on a price. The woman came back on Monday to pay for the bike and I spontaneously decided to knock another $100 off the price. I guess I got sentimental thinking about my first bike, the thrill of learning to ride, and the thought of another woman on two wheels! Don't be afraid to make an offer, counter their offer and try to get some stuff thrown into the deal. The worst that can happen is the dealer will say "No"! Berti Dear Berti, Tuesday, May 20 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear BB, You might want to check out the Bikes at Cost website. This will give you insight on what dealers are actually paying for the bikes and then can see what kind of markup the dealer you went to is adding. This might be a great bargaining chip! I'm sorry, but I haven't a clue about the dealers in Florida. If any FL readers want to share a particularly good (or bad) dealer, chime in! Mama Share Your ThoughtsTop 2004Dear
VTwin Mama, I was so surprised and happy, no more Sportster Blues. Can you give me suggestions to selling my bike? Happy in Hog Heaven . . . Low Rider Mama Dear
Low Rider Mama (!), I am soooooo happy for you! What a great surprise and wonderful gift. A big wet smooch to hubby dearest! Hmmmmm . . . selling a bike. Well, with the Spring season almost upon us (a VTwin Mama sister can dream, can't she?!?!?!), there are a number of solutions at hand. Consider an ad in the local paper's motorcycle for sale section. Also, look for freebie circulars to advertise in. Check your local HD dealer to see if they accept used bikes for sale (some do, they really do!). Then, check the local grocery stores -- many offer a board for posting local sales items. If you can, park that bike in a lot where lots of traffic goes by with a For Sale sign on it (of course, you'll have to monitor that). Go to a local HD HOG meeting and put the word out. Bring flyers with you when the next charity/fun rides are happening. Check out the local women's riding groups (on my Cool Links page) to see what they are up to -- there may be a new woman rider who started on a 250cc bike and is looking for an HD deal. Now, most importantly, don't over inflate the price. Check the Kelly Blue Book value of the motorcycle (yes, they have a special section for bikes), and print out the valuation to hand out to interested parties along with specific info on your bike (picture, maintenance record, etc.). Yes, you may not get the price that would equal your actual investment, but there's no point in keeping it in the garage any longer, so be fair and get it into the hands of someone who will appreciate it. I know this bike didn't work for you in many ways, but don't dwell on the negatives -- they were YOUR negatives -- and to someone else, this will be a dream bike come true. Accentuate the positives, because there are a lot of them (including the modifications you have already made). Now, when can I come over and play with your new Low Rider?!?!??! Mama Friday, March 5 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
1nurse1, Glad to hear the Blast is doing it for you -- for now -- because gaining confidence in riding is an individual journey -- one that you best determine for yourself! Now, go out and get the most riding time you can and you'll be in great position to re-evaluate the next bike you want to get. Check out my NEW Motorcycle for Short Riders page that I just created that chronicles the bikes that shorter riders say are working for them! This will give you some more food for thought. Mama Sunday, April 4 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
SE, Hello Mama, I am looking forward to hearing how people sell their bikes. Thanks. Angela Kosar -- now Lowrider Mama Dear
Angela, Wednesday, June 9 For Angela who is trying to sell her bike with little success so far: Ebay the bike girl!! Ebay the bike!!! So many people use Ebay it will get lots of exposure if you post a picture of it and its specs on Ebay. I know several people that have purchased their machines on Ebay. If you dont want to go that route then post pictures of it at your local grocery stores, apartment complexes, and newspaper ads. I still think that Ebay is a good way to go though. People from all over the country will be able to see it. Dont give up youll get it sold. Karen (note from Mama: this page on eBay's site gives a run-down of the steps in selling -- a good place to read up on the process if you're unsure about the whole process: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/basics.html.) Tuesday, June 15 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Kevin, Dear
VTwin Mama, In our own community with a fancy Honda dealership, I have visited at least 5 times, never to have a salesman approach me at all. In the end, the small shop 230 miles away got my sale, installed all of the accessories which I bought at an additional 10% off their already 10% discounted price and they arranged for very inexpensive delivery to my work place. There seems to be a problem out there with some businesses and salesmen that women just dont buy motorcycles. They just dont realize the market is increasing daily and women will take their business where they are respected. By
the way, the Mom and Pop Shop also offered me a finders
fee with any business I send their way.
I am on the Dear
Kerry, So, part of my advice to women looking at bikes is to tell an approaching sales person exactly what level of help they need (immediately), or if no one is coming by, to find any store employee and request a sales person's attention (immediately). Then, with notebook in hand, and a list of questions at the ready, begin. If you feel that you're being panned off because you're a woman, loudly proclaim that your cash is as green as any other and do they want the sale or not?! Then get the sales manager on the floor and demand the assistance. Hard line, but I can guarantee you that a dealership DOES NOT want you loudly proclaiming to everyone who is there at the time that you are not pleased with their service! Sometimes loud is good! I also counsel that not only should one gauge the dealership by the sales department, but take the time to talk with the service and parts department to see how involved they are willing to be when problems arise. After all, once the sales is made, these departments are going to be your life-link to getting solutions! If any readers are near Seattle and looking for a good dealership, I'll put you in contact with Kerry and she can help guide you! Mama Wednesday, June 30 For Kerry who noted how different dealers can be with a prospective customer: Kerry's comment about salesmen reminded me of our local Honda dealer. They don't seem to care that I can drive 60 miles in several directions and get real service. It may not be that she's a woman either. The last time we were there, my husband waited patiently at the counter for his turn, only to have the salesman turn away from him to help another salesman. !!! We then went to the Harley dealer where the parts guy handed it to him immediately and didn't charge him. Her dealer may just be complacent like ours.We've bought three bikes from dealers in other towns because our small-town dealers acted like they had all the customers they needed. With my first bike, however, I was persistent...called around to shop price, got the price I wanted locally, and I did it without the husband. Next time I decided it was too much work to buy locally. I think it's great that Kerry has established a good relationship with a shop in another town. It's a good excuse for a Saturday ride. Sarah (note from Mama: buyers take heed -- you don't have to put up with shoddy dealerships, at least not most of us.) Tuesday, July 6 More for Kerry who noted how different dealers can be with a customer: We had similar experiences looking for our scoot. The one closest to us was indifferent at best when we (two women) showed up and asked about the model of Suzuki scooter we wanted. Kept trying to steer us toward the bigger one. Ah, no...One sales guy at another place would barely give us the time of day and suggested we return when we were closer to buying and at hours convenient to him. (Other folks in the same dealer were nicer.) We went to another dealer out of state and about 40 miles from our home (close to where Lynn grew up) and wound up putting money down on the spot. They gave us a fair price right from the get-go, didn't bat an eye at the fact that we were clearly a couple and then even delivered it to us--at no charge--when it seemed we'd need more practice before riding it home. They didn't give us lesser service or give us attitude because we were clearly only looking at the big scooters and not the traditional bikes. Now we are happy to ride to their dealership for service. :-) It definitely pays to go to a dealer you feel comfortable with. We even go to the local Harley shop for some things (state inspection, some gear) and are treated well. Bryna (note from Mama: the vote is in (!): dealers with bad attitudes and salesmanship are OUT; it's worth traveling a little to see which dealer is there for YOU!) Tuesday, July 6 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Ladykruzer, Wednesday, September 8 Dear
VTwin Mama, You don't have a place where someone can sell their bikes on your site? Is there a reason for this? I want someone to buy my bike that I know who cares about riding and learning. Any questions just email me at the above email address. Thanks. Marie Sweat Dear
Marie, Monday, November 8 Dear
VTwin Mama, Terri has been looking at the new model GS 500 Suzuki and this year it comes with a full fairing. The stated seat height is 790mm (31"). Terri looked twice at this, that's higher than the one's she has sat on. She has no trouble reaching the ground when she sits on this model bike, but at the seat height listed she would not be able too. At 5'4", Terri can touch the ground easily on this bike (and that's in flat soled bike boots). We puzzled on this for a while and then reached the following conclusions. The bikes are always quoted as being dry weight (no petrol in tank or oil in engine). We have a theory that just by adding fluids the suspension probably drops down by a third of an inch. Then the rider sits on the bike...and you can take another inch or more off of that, depending on the weight of the rider. Then you maybe turn the setting on the rear suspension up or down a couple of notches, this affects the seat height as well, when the rider is sitting on the machine. Our thoughts are now as follows: Don't assume any bike has too high a seat height until you have actually sat on it. And remember also, with a new bike, the suspension will never be as stiff as the first week you ride it. Likewise the padding in the seat will never be as firm. In fact I am betting that if you sat on a brand new model...and then sat on a used model...the seat height would certainly be different. We are wondering how many women have read advertised seat heats and thought "Oh bugger, it's too tall for me." When in fact it may actually not have been. Kevin and Terri Dear
K &T, Thursday, February 10 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Rhonda, Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Laurie, As to the bike swap idea, perhaps the local dealers have bulletins boards where you can post a message. Other than that, all I can think of is to put an ad in the paper or check with local riding organizations to see if anyone is interested. Readers, any other ideas? Mama Friday, May 6 For Chopper Annie who moved up to an Intruder 800 and may be looking to sell the Savage 650: Congrats on the bigger bike. If you really want to sell the Savage, you might try: www.suzukisavage.com. They have a "Marketplace" section that I've used for parts for my Savage. Squaw Baby (note from Mama: thanks for this useful suggestion!) Hi Mama, Dear
Angela, I checked with WantFacts and found for the 883 Hugger, the NADA value of this bike is $3860-$5430, with an average value of $5075. If it's the "C" model, then the value is $4180-$5885, with an average value of $5500. Think again what you've been asking for this bike, what shape it's in, what extras you've added, and whether you're in line with the NADA guide. You may want to open up the process a bit my adding the "or best offer" line . . . this let's buyers know you're ready to haggle a bit. I just received an email from Cycle Classifieds, a free listing service for bikes. You may also want to type in "free ads for motorcycle sales" in a search engine and find other such sites. Most allow a picture to be included! This would broaden your selling market. I'll also note that you may find a buyer within the ranks of the women riding organizations. With new riders joining, or ready to move up a step, this bike may be of interest. Check my Women's Sites page for these websites. Of course there are the more standard venues of the local paper, and given that the riding season is just gearing up, the third year may be the charm! Also, check the paper for other listings to see how they are pricing their bikes, and if you're in a smaller town, choose the biggest near-by city and advertise there. Some local dealers have a bulletin board for sales postings by owner . . . check your area and surrounding dealerships for opportunities. If you've got a rally coming up soon in your area, you may wish to ride this bike instead and place a nice for sale sign on it when you get there (or trailer it up if that's an option for you). Of course, now that I have a mini Buy/Sell page on this site, I'll get this letter posted there with a link in the left column. Mama Tuesday, May 10 For Angela who has been trying to sell her Sportster for 2 years: You might want to try www.sportster.org. They have a Buy Sell section . . . but also a fairly active email list made up of Sportster enthusiasts . . . most believe that the Sportster is the only Harley to have. They frequently put up for sale notes. You could also find out what they are currently going for in your geographic region. Diane in Michigan (note from Mama: this sounds good. I know I sold my '76 Shovelhead chiefly because the buyer was a true aficionado of that exact bike! ) Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Dawne, Dear
VTwin Mama, 1) Last month I started learning riding basics & bike anatomy on a friend's old Honda XL175 in his rural neighborhood. Now I'm excited to get something for myself. I've narrowed it down to the ever-popular small bikes, the Rebel, Virago 250 and GZ 250. I'm 37, 5'4", 110lbs and during the week will use it to commute to work everyday in & through downtown Chicago. Is there real world advice for someone trying to choose the bike best-suited to defend against kamikaze cab wheels & cell-phone distracted pedestrians, i.e. handling/braking issues? 2) Is there a good time to buy a new bike and gear due to traditional sales in mid-winter? My bikes are pricing in the $3100-$3300 range, so I'm not sure how much leaner they get come sale time, or does everyone really advocate getting a used first bike (but the '06 GZ250 comes in a really sweet Pearlescent ice blue!) 3) The Int'l Motorcycle Show is coming through town in February. Is this a good place to walk out with good deals, or more of a Show & Tell environment? Thanks for any help! Alex Schilling Dear
Alex, 1) All bikes have their quirks, but having lived in Chicago for 12 years, and understanding the downtown congestion and danger, safety is largely not a function of which bike you get (big, loud pipes can make a difference), but your skill level and understanding of how to identify a potential hazard and circumventing the situation before it becomes a problem is important. Consider taking a course where they'll point out safety issues and also consider getting the Ride Like a Pro: Surviving the Mean Streets DVD (mention VTwin Mama when ordering and get $5 off the shipping/handling cost). Or, if you're more of a reading learner, then there are excellent books that address this (check my Education Center page for suggestions). The main thing here is that you need to practice and learn the specific handling characteristics of any bike you get so that when you need to make a quick maneuver, you'll know exactly what to "tell" your bike to do. That's the key and the only way to learn it is to practice, practice, practice . . . preferably in a more safe zone before you take on traffic issues! 2) My understanding about bike pricing is that you may be able to get a deal on last year's model (i.e. the 2006 models are coming in, so look for a 2005 model that the dealer wants off their showroom floor ) . . . but if they aren't willing to come down in price, negotiating for extras is a possibility or bringing down the extra fees (all those pesky set-up charges and such). With the recent gas price increases (which are coming down again), there was a run on the smaller bikes so there was no wiggle room. An added note: if the dealer's sales person and you aren't clicking or you feel they aren't listening to you, go to another dealer who is willing to address all of your issues. Also, since the service department might be something you'll be using, you'll want to see how you click with those folks as well! The reason to consider a used bike is that this is your practice bike and given that oopsies may occur, why ding up a paint job and chrome and extending parts (mirrors, etc.)?! It really can add a measure of trepidation for a new rider and losing confidence in the beginning is harder to regain than starting on something that doesn't add a measure of "omigosh" to boot! 3) At any local/regional show, the manufacturer is going to have the national team on hand as well as local dealer's reps available, so go and compare bikes, drink it all in, and also make sure you're taking with a local dealer rep when you're ready to talk price. The same thing applies though . . . if a bike is in demand, relatively little wiggle room will be available. Since shows can be quite busy, keeping the rep's attention for an extended talk could be a challenge so you may want to use the opportunity to narrow down your bike choice and leave the negotiations to a later time. I've sent an email to Motorcycle Events to get their take on all of this . . . so let's see what they email me! Mama Thursday, February 16 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Blair, Dear VTwin Mama, 1. Local Classifieds I am needing to sell my bike and don't have a lot of money to waste on methods that most find don't work that effectively. Of course, every situation is different. I am just looking for a general consensus, ideas, thoughts, etc. Thanks a lot, Don't Want to Sell, But Have To : ( Dear Don't Want to Sell, But
Have To, When I needed to sell my last bike quickly (because I was moving and didn't want to transport it) and it was an older Harley that wouldn't appeal to that many people, I went immediately to the two biggest papers in my area and placed a classified ad. I received only one offer to see it, and then reduced the price to conclude the deal. Since the riding season is just beginning in many areas, it's a good time as many will be looking for a bike. I would start with the dealers of that make and see if they post notices for bikes for sale, or, if the bike is of interest to them (some carry a used inventory, but some only if you are trading up . . . ask!). I also see independent car lots offering bikes for sale . . . this may be a better route than just parking your bike in a busy area with a for sale sign (riskier for potential theft). Why not check in to it?! Then I would call or email every riding organization in the area and tell them what you have. It can't hurt. Also, is there a rally coming up that you could park at with a for sale sign? Then I would type in "free motorcycle ads" in a search engine and post your ad (with picture is better if they allow it) on anything that is free (this only would cost your time to do it), but make sure you understand if they charge a fee upon the sale of the bike (set fee or a percentage of bike sale price). I would be more than glad to post your bike on my site, so please email back with particulars (year/make/model, miles, condition, location, contact info). I list these on my limited Buy and Sell page! Do all these things and set an acceptable time limit. If it doesn't sell, then I'd move on to paid opportunities. Readers, any thoughts to share? Mama Thursday, April 6 For Don't Want to Sell, But Have To who is noodling out best pathways to selling a bike: On selling a bike, any free options are worth trying first. Just wanted to mention that when I sold my Virago, I put an ad in Cycle Trader, which also went on the web. I had a heck of a time finding the web ad though, and I knew what I was looking for! However, the printed ad was in the book a week when I had the bike sold. It was a 250 and this was before the gas prices were jacked up last summer. I also live just outside a major city in an area nuts about motorcycles. They're everywhere here. FWIW (for what it's worth). Linda C. (note from Mama: thanks for sharing your experience between how the online and printed version played out with Cycle Trader . . . very useful information!) Tuesday, May 30 Dear VTwin Mama, So far, I've done a little research on-line and I've sat on Harley Sportsters only because I thought I wouldn't be able to handle anything heavier. I have no worries about handling any bike during the ride itself and Lord knows I'm not afraid of power. But since I now have somewhat of a tricky back problem I didn't have before I have to balance the "speed junky" in me with seat height, weight and basic maneuverability (for stops and starts, in and out of tight spaces etc) . I've read in your column about shorter women and the Softails Heritage and Deluxe and that there are options available in pullback risers, lowering, power clutches etc.. and that some dealers offer renting for test driving. Because I'd like to be able to walk into a HD dealership and/or talk to a private seller and know what kinds of questions to ask, I would appreciate advice/suggestions/things to consider. Not Quite Dead Yet in California Dear Not Quite Dead Yet, As you are well read on options that should be considered when buying a bike as a shorter rider, I'll simply add that given your less-than-perfect back, you'll want to explore how a rider backrest and windshield can be added to a chosen bike. The backrest will support you and the windshield will remove the direct hit of air to your mid-section. A windshield will change the handling characteristics, so make sure you do practice runs in a safe, traffic-free zone (a good idea anyways so that you reconnect to the overall experience). The best advice is that any modifications (choice and installation) to a new bike should be rolled into the purchase price and haggled over. It's usually much more expensive to consider these after the fact. In my mind, they should lower the bike for next to nothing as otherwise you wouldn't be able to purchase this bike at all (!) but may have less room to dink around about adding a windshield. In looking at used motorcycles, given that you're set on a H-D but want to keep $$ down, you'll want to visit the seller to take a look-see. Talk about the maintenance/ service history, if a service manual (in addition to the owner's manual) comes with the purchase (a decent enough clue), how the bike was rode (given the mileage), how it currently runs (truth in selling), if the bike has sat for any length of time (can present operational problems down the line), if the bike has ever been dropped and the reason it is being sold. You'll also want to do a NADA price guide check to see if the seller is within a reasonable asking price. While they often note the extras they added, usually chrome, and that did cost money, you'll have to decide if the asking price makes sense. Then call the local dealer or do Internet searches to see if the modifications you desire are available and what the parts/installation cost is. Do a check with an independent shop for comparison (often the labor costs are less and the lead-time to handle the modifications may be shorter). Happy shopping!
Mama Monday, June 12 For Bob and others who are seeking a used Voyager kit: It wouldn't hurt to post a message at this Yahoo Group. Patty (note from Mama: not a super busy message board, but you never know what it will net!) Wednesday, June 21 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Lisa-Marie, I'll also point out that my Disabilities/Medical
page has links to sites that offer methods of altering standard
motorcycles for those that can't operate a hand shift. Just a thought.
Mama Dear VTwin Mama, So I went off in search of the perfect two-seater car instead of a bike and put down a deposit. Kept coming back to your forum and looking at the pics and read the article on dropping the bike as well as the stories from others. Yesterday I took back the deposit on the car and bought my H-D Deluxe in beautiful "Black Pearl." I can't stop smiling and I pick her up on Monday . . . will sneak away from work to do this!!!! I go in this afternoon [Sunday] to the dealer with a check. However, the finance guy added some things (dealer prep and setup) that was not part of the deal. My offer was a flat out $17,100 w/tax since the 07's are coming out soon. I feel like they are trying to make up the $1,500. that I got them to drop off. Do I have to pay dealer prep and setup? One of my brother-in-laws in NC did not pay dealer prep or setup on his new Road King and he didn't have to pay doc fee either. This is a Harley '06 Deluxe. Felt good at first but now feeling like I got had. I still have to give them the check today and I may end up without the bike and having to find another dealer. Not what I want to do but I also don't want to lose my "deal" because of a "slick" finance guy. Thank you for the forum. Sharon in TN Dear Sharon, As I noted in a personal email to you Sunday, dealer prep and any other charges added after a price was agreed upon is reprehensible. Yes, they are trying to recoup the discount they gave you. You weren't had . . . this is typical sales stuff. While those fees are not illegal, they should have disclosed them. So it's typical . . . you are all happy and then when the paperwork starts, boom, there are those extra line items. They know you want the motorcycle and they'll make every attempt to capitalize on that. Dealer prep/set-up is simply ensuring that the vehicle is clean and full of the fluids it needs and maybe a short spin to see it's running correctly. If you think about the amount of money they want to "make back," it works out to a lot of money per hour to turn over a product that should be ready for you as a matter of course. The bottom line is that you have to decide if you want to pay this. You want the bike, but they want to clear their showroom floor. Be prepared to walk away and go to the next dealer. I realize that the same motorcycle might not be available and that's the downside. So it all boils down to who has the stronger will. Let it be yours if you feel they are taking advantage of the situation. Mama Tuesday, July 25 For Sharon who went to buy a motorcycle and they changed the agreed upon deal: I've just visited several Harley dealerships this past weekend and they are all offering REALLY good deals on '06 bikes since the '07's are in. The largest dealership in Indianapolis didn't even have any of the '07's on the floor since they were trying to move the '06's, and they had a huge inventory of them. She should walk away and go to another dealership. If the dealership didn't give her the accurate total when she agreed to the sale, she should take her business elsewhere. Penny (note from Mama: thanks for sharing the reality of showrooms and inventory!) There's a thousand shops selling Harleys in the USA . . . find one where you don't feel like you are being ripped off. Hell, tell the shop you were going to buy from you feel like they're ripping you off, and if they won't come to the party, just find another shop. I hate to say it, but they may think a woman will be easier to bamboozle, I've seen it in bike shops here. Kevin in Oz (note from Mama: I did note to Sharon in a personal email that a salesperson may be trying to capitalize on her being a woman. Read what happened . . . ) And now an update from Sharon: I went in on Sunday, found my salesman and said that we have a problem and he and I needed to straighten it out. Our agreement was for $17,100 plus tax out the door, no add-ons like prep and set-up. He took the paperwork I had and went back to finance to talk with them. He came back out and said they wanted to know where the check was at since the deal hadn't been paid for at the time. I said I had it right here and showed it to him. He wanted to take it to the back and show it to finance. Up until now the hubby let me handle it, but then stepped in and said that the check would change hands when the price got settled, and then stepped back. The salesman said that the deal was firm at $17,100 plus tax and that they would make all the adjustments to paperwork to show that like it was suppose to be from the start. They lived up to what I had hoped for from a dealership and I will have no problem going back there for my maintenance and accessories. Paid for the bike and smiled all the way home . . . so did my husband. He was worried I'd crack and take whatever they gave me since I did want this bike. ;0) Sales guy was really a great guy to deal with on this buy and apologized for any misunderstanding on the check thing as well as for the first finance guys handling of the transaction. I went back after work this afternoon [Monday] and got my rundown on the bike and drove "my baby" home. She sits in the garage ready for work today. I'm still up because I read my manual front to back!!! Then I went to the catalog to tag more stuff to put on her. This is better than regular shopping. Your site has been great and before I left the dealership I had them change the back lights so they are now running lights as well as the turn signals and brake light. One of the safety tips I read online. The guy at the service department was getting ready to recommend it when I asked about it. He gladly put the system in for me since it took all of 5 minutes! Now we have to get my hubby his bike. We got to see the new H-D 07's . . . they had 33 of them. He actually liked the Softail Custom which surprised me. I'm trying to move him out of the chopper path and onto an H-D or even the Big Dog Mastiff which we saw on Sunday up close and personal. Woman driver!!!!! Have to be tall for that bike for sure. Thanks again for a great forum and the words of wisdom. Now I have to get the rest of my gear and find some folks to ride with for fun. Going to join the local Hog Chapter which is the Dragon Chapter of Maryville. After I get more in tune with the bike I'll take a run at the Dragon . . . slower speed than most. Lots of ladies at work who ride and want to go places. Thanks for everything. Sharon, "MonyGone" (note from Mama: good for you and I'm glad to hear that you're confident about the dealership! Happy shopping and riding!) Thursday, August 31 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Brian, From Leah, whose heightened riding sense is scaring all of her riding time: I want to thank everyone for their support and encouragement. I haven't driven yet, other than to move my husband's bike from the driveway to the garage. LOL I have been shopping, and have decided that the V-Star 650 is the bike for me, and I can't wait to get one. Just so happens that last night we had a biker party here, and one of our guests has his V-Star for sale in the price range I'm looking at. Now I'm torn . . . do I quick get it now so I can get some parking lot time in before the Minnesota weather changes? Or wait until Spring? Decisions, decisions. LOL Thanks again for your thoughts! Leah (note from Mama: glad I and readers could share and care! It would be lovely to get the bike and immediately take your course learning and transfer that to practice on your own bike . . . why delay? You have a few months left in the season and then, with a bit of Spring re-train, could consider taking another course, but on your bike! You could be ready for that! Why not ring in your 40th birthday with a huge grin!) Monday, September 4 More for Leah, who has found a bike but is unsure whether to buy now or wait till Spring: Get that bike that is available in your price range now.
This is nearing the end of normal biking weather (particularly where you
live) and people are selling. Come spring, people will be thinking
of riding again and this seller may be able to sell his currently
available bike to someone else for more money. Getting it now would
also give you all winter to become familiar with the bikes inner
workings to learn normal maintenance, get any problems fixed, and make
lists of what you may wish to add or change before riding weather comes
around again. Granted, I am a bit impulsive at times, but I
wouldnt pass it up if that is what you want get it now. And
good riding to you! Hey Leah, your situation sounds similar to mine is some ways, because I bought my first bike late in the season. Here's my 2’, having been there. Your letter didn't say if you've taken the MSF course yet, but if not, my advice would be to take it [note: Leah did take a course], then buy a used little beater bike that's in good working order, low center of gravity, preferably with a higher CC than the course bikes, but not as big as the 650 (this time of year there should be lots of them in the classifieds). Buy the beater bike because as a newbie, YOU WILL FALL DOWN. Kudos if you don't, but it's highly likely you will, especially doing slow-speed maneuvers. It will really do a number on your confidence to see your Dream Machine covered in scars and bruises. If it's a beater that you know you're not going to have for very long, you probably won't get so upset. Besides, you'd probably spend the same amount of money fixing up your V-Star's battle wounds as you would on a little beater. Spend a couple of weeks buzzing around in parking lots and quiet roads. Then, do some digging down the grapevine to find, ideally, a police officer (if there's anyone who can ride, it's them), or someone with a lot of experience whom you trust, who is willing to volunteer to tutor you for a day or two and teach you all the tips and tricks they didn't teach you on the course. It may be better if this person is not your significant other, as you'll likely be too self-conscious to learn anything. I was just tutored yesterday, and I went from buzzing only around the driveway scared s**tless, to riding with something akin to confidence down the actual road, in actual traffic, in ONE afternoon. You should've seen the look on my boyfriend's face when we pulled up, me on my own bike! I don't know who was more proud, me or him. As for the V-Star, if you can afford to buy two bikes, go for it! Seeing it parked in your garage every day will motivate the snot out of you to become a better rider so you can graduate to your dream bike. If you don't end up buying your friend's bike, don't worry. You WILL find another. There are lots of them out there. And who knows- your friend's bike may not sell this year, and you can buy it in the spring. If you already have a bike (the aforementioned beater), you'll have a better idea of what you should be looking for, and you won't be tempted to buy the first V-Star 650 you see, because you won't be in such a hurry to buy one RIGHT NOW!!!. You'll be able to take your time finding one that's in the best condition for a price you agree with. Then, in the spring, take a refresher course on the beater, get familiar with riding again, and sell it. Adopt your Dream Machine, then ride on sister, ride on. Nicole (note from Mama: ok, the flip-side view . . . taking more time to think it through if there are real concerns about buying this bike so quickly. My feeling is that if the purchase feels rushed, then step back and wait.) Thursday, June 14 Hi
Petra, 1996 Suzuki Intruder 800 - $3000 These are the questions I asked and response below . . . Is this bike shaft-driven and liquid-cooled ? Have there been any modifications other than the windshield? Seat, exhaust, handle bars, etc How long have you owned the bike? Has it been ridden recently ? Do you have any maintenance records ? (Oil changes, brakes, etc ) Answer: I bought the bike last year from Treads and Sleds, a dealer in Grand Rapids. They did a thorough inspection and changed the oil for me in August. I rode it a few times last year and then stored it at home. It started up no problems this spring and I have taken it out a few times. It is shaft driven and I believe liquid cooled. I am a first time female driver and it is a great first bike! Its in really nice shape. No other modifications that I am aware of, I not really a motorcycle guru! :-) Petra, I just wondered what you thought???? Take care, Nancy Dear
Nancy, Next, I went to online pricing guides to see what the average resale value of this motorcycle is reported at. Kelley Blue Book is calling out $2745. NADA is noting $2066, but goes to $2155 if it has an engine guard and saddlebags. Now, I can't account for the difference in the valuation (my best guess is that it's based on what a guide considers "normal and reasonable" mileage) but it suggests to me that there is room for negotiation. And most people list something with "wiggle room" in pricing, hence her OBO. So, go sit on the bike and check your comfort of reach to controls, etc. and have her ride it around so you can see and hear it in action. Check the tread on the tires (are they uneven or worn low . . . you might have to get new tires right off the bat). If you feel she has been forthcoming with everything, test the waters by noting you went online to check resale value and are willing to offer $2500 (maybe $500 lower if new tires are really called for). Price out tires before you go so you have that info handy. She may hem and haw, but this is the time to stop talking. You have put your offer on the table . . . let her be the next one to speak. She'll let you know what she really wants if you don't jump the gun. If she has her next motorcycle in the garage already, she's going to be looking to sell. Or, she may be waiting for this money so she can get her next one! And remember, you don't have to buy it! If everything seems right, you can walk away and tell you like a few hours or a day to think it over . . . then call her an hour later and seal the deal if all is well . . . ! ! ! ! ! Now, from what I can tell, that bike is in fact liquid cooled. When you look at the bike, you should be able to take side covers off and see the antifreeze tank (that's a guess by the way). Pricing I found online for more comparison (by mileage): 8,300 miles:
$2800 So, I'm going to stick by my $2500 suggestion. Happy shopping! Mama Before
You Buy a Motorcycle: Tips for Financing Your Bike Heading for the motorcycle dealership with nothing
more than a bad case of wanderlust and an empty wallet can lead to big
payments, outrageous interest rates and more bike than your budget can
handle.
8 Thursday, May 8 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Tammy, If you do qualify to hold a raffle, then the concern is that you can sell enough tickets to cover the value of the bike. Do you have a plan in place for this? Depending on the year/make/model of your motorcycle, may I suggest that you contact the local Harley-Davidson dealer owner and inquire whether they purchase used bikes. While some will only take trade-ins, depending on what you've got, there may be interest. Even if they don't, you could continue your conversation by explaining your need and see if that H-D dealer has an upcoming event where they could work in a raffle on your behalf. If that doesn't pan out, ask for the contact of the head of the local HOG (Harley Owners Group) chapter. They may be able to assist as their contacts range far and wide and they may know of someone who is looking for your make/model bike. Another thought I have ... I now see that some used auto dealers will offer used bikes for sale. It might be possible to advertise the bike but with that auto dealer's contact information, and when it's sold, they would get a small percent commission. I'd make some phone calls and see what's possible. Mama Monday, May 12 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Melody, I would also email all the nearest women's riding organizations. You never know if there is a possibility that someone might be interested, or know of someone actively looking! Classified ads in the local paper can get pricey with too many words, but other than the year/make/model and contact info, you could simply add what height person it would fit (i.e. something like "Modified to fit 5'2" person). Anyone else have any ideas? Mama Tuesday, July 15 Dear VTwin Mama, I think that your site is great, especially today when so many people are ditching their gas guzzlers for bikes. I read about 3/4 of the Q&A page before I realized that it was primarily geared towards women. I think that's great! Just because I'm a guy doesn't mean I can tell the difference between sh*t and shinola. I'm a new rider (loving every minute of it) and I'm about to hit 500 miles in the next few days on my bike, a Yamaha V-Star 1100 Custom. Salesmen are the lowest form of life on the planet. There are exceptions, and exceptional exceptions, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. But my advice to anyone, especially the ladies, is to put your foot down. Any salesmen who tells you to "deal with it," "get used to it," or advises someone to disregard personal safety and/or comfort for the sake of aesthetics, has no business selling motorcycles. There's plenty of time for chrome and adjustments after building confidence. There is no reason (other than to make a sale, or make a sale bigger) to advise anyone against modifications which compromise safety. That's just my 2 cents ... I'm glad I've found your site. It answered a few questions of my own. Anonymous Dear Anon, I don't believe we've had a lot of ape hanger handlebar questions here ... I remember thinking they had to be horribly uncomfortable until I rode a bike with a fairly high one and was surprised that it was kinda fun. Steering at slow speeds was very different! Of course, that wasn't a long ride, so I still wonder about blood draining from one's hands and arms over an extended ride. Guess a throttle lock would need to be added for sure if you want any kind of right hand/arm relief. Congrats on your upcoming 500 mile mark and many more happy road miles to you! Mama
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